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Post by Aldva on Mar 8, 2010 19:49:09 GMT -5
William,
While I understand the interpretation of the 20' radius to buildings. I would like to interject in regards to the catwalk on the tower field. While I concur that the towers are definatly a building. I fail to see the safety issue with the catwalks that are well elevated above the tanks and players.
Next, by using the catwalks as buildings you are inadvertantly created a 200' barrier on the tower field from the CP that tanks cannot penetrate (The areas open at the end of the two end towers is less than 20' from the woodline) With no such protection on the spools field CP. While the pug can transverse the woods, it will be next to impossible for the tanks to get within decent firing range of the Towers CP.
I would think that if a tank crossed the plane of the catwalks in the center of any two towers this would allow access, maintain safety and give an equal oppurtunity on both sides of the field.
In as such right now, A towers field side tank, once tagging in cannot leave the area of the CP as it would have to come within 20' of a building/catwalk. Hench those tanks would only be useful for base defense.
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Post by kouza on Mar 10, 2010 0:30:41 GMT -5
Aldva, he did say the only exception was to let a tank from the tower side once it spawns.
However, with that said it further proves your point. If something should be unsafe to one team, then why should it be ok for the other?
Regardless, I do not care about the tower issue, my issue falls on balance. It is completely unfair for a tank to be able to leave the tower field, and drive up to the spools, and pull 20` away from the CP and, shoot it, when a tank starting at the spool field cannot even get into firing range of the Tower CP.
If there is absolutely no way to allow a tank to drive under the cat walk (I would have absolutely no idea why), The same should be applied to Spool field (Tank cannot cross the 50).
ALSO: In regards to a player laying behind a bunker and not being seen by the tank, the GSRP specifically states that a player may not hide, and use the rule for ground of eliminating the tank
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Post by wallace on Mar 10, 2010 11:16:52 GMT -5
William, is there a 150 or 100 feet encroachment rule for vehicles/planes against CP's anyway? if I remember correctly that is one of the reasons why they cannot pass the towers. I think its one of the unwritten rules from MXS. I seen aircraft called out for it on the spool field maybe the same should be done for tanks?
Kouza - there is a " Building " in the middle of the spool field that should stop the tank from getting 20 feet away of the CP.
Willow and I have talked about the Rules and concerns we have. Its just the Tank Rules seem alittle vag. when it comes to a few things. Everything that he wrote out is both of our concerns.
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Post by Ronn on Mar 10, 2010 12:39:21 GMT -5
Don't forget, any players with Tanks (including Tank Walkers and Drivers), about the Tanks meeting pre-game on Saturday.
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Post by mntlhazrd on Mar 10, 2010 13:03:19 GMT -5
Wallace, it is a 50' radius from the CP. Kouza, geez youre wearing me out! Just goes to show no matter how maby times i read over the GSRP there is always some detail i overlook. In regards to the player "hiding" behind a bunker to eliminate a tank i would take the same approach as with the previous scenario. If it can be proven that he was not doing so deliberately i would back them away from each other otherwise if i do not have full knowledge of the situation and take it for face value i would pull the tank for advancing on the player and then pull the player for trying to hide form the tank to try and eliminate it.
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Post by wallace on Mar 10, 2010 14:16:51 GMT -5
Cool. that answered most of my questions so over all. Ref calls on the tough decisions. with a player trying to hide. both the tank and player get called out. 20 feet radius on buildings. ( anything that can get demo and tape up. ) aircraft/tank/pug 50 feet radius on CP. aircraft/tank/pug tank can move towards live player in bunker until 20 feet away. GSRP aircraft/tank/pug honestly that clears up alot of things. I have agree with Al and kouza, but at the same time that is how the field is setup and how the rules are enforced. So we as players should learn just to deal with it. Both sides of the field have their advantages when it comes to terrain and buildings. This just happens to be one of them. With the 50 feet rule and the Building on the Spools that should stop the tank/aircraft/pug from advancing to close. Personal I like how both sides of the field have their perks. My last question would if the tank wishes to advance through an area the is made of of bunkers can the tank walker push the players back for their "SAFETY" or does the tank have to sit there take out the bunker/player then move forward? I lied two questions: 2 by the tank walker searching for the player in the bunker, eliminate the threat of the player hiding, and the player wishing not to move forces the tank to stop at the 20 foot area? I guess its the same question.
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Post by mntlhazrd on Mar 10, 2010 14:47:45 GMT -5
Wallace, in regards to the player hiding that would be correct by my judgement considering it is the walker's responsibility to insure that a tank should not come within 20' of a player. As for you question it is not the walker's responsibility to "clear the way" for the tank. If an enemy player is preventing the tank from advancing then the tank need to eliminate the player or find another way around to its objective. The same could be said if it is a friendly player in that it is the player's responsibility to communicate with its teammates and coordinate movements. A tank walker is not to provide an advantage to the tank only to provide an area of safety.
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Post by Willow on Mar 10, 2010 14:56:07 GMT -5
Man, work has been so busy this week I haven't had time to.. do non work stuff like be on here... Just reading this page (haven't digested the previous page) it seems like this last point Wallace/William have touched on clears up a lot of stuff. Essentially if you have some players hiding in a bunker, the tank has to clear the bunker to get by them. In that situation, the tank walker simply needs to warn the tank they cannot advance due to players. I think the reason this question has come up a couple of times is merely for the breach of safety perimeter situation, who gets called out if anyone. Honestly if a player is found to be too close to the tank (just one of those rare cases) and hadn't planned on it, and I was driving the tank, if the player got up and ran to find better cover, I wouldn't shoot 'em. He's just trying to get out of the way and play safe, smart, fun. When it comes down to it, if a player is willing to move, the tank and player should both be willing to give a few feet. Afterall.. it's about having fun and just doing our best, whynot give a few feet? I'll read more later when I have a chance.-
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Post by wallace on Mar 10, 2010 14:59:30 GMT -5
Thank you and understandable William.
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Post by Willow on Mar 10, 2010 15:21:03 GMT -5
I just had a chance to read William's full post on the previous page. Thanks for all the input William, I feel that we have been able to cover everything as much as we needed. Unless something else comes up. This truly will add to the playability and fun factor of future events. Just to summarize, as Wallace did above: - Ref calls on the tough decisions - All on-field referee calls ARE FINAL, if you want to dispute it, do so politely, OFF-FIELD with Ronn/Donn
- Tank walkers are responsible for keeping a keen eye in all directions of the Tank and making sure (prior to advancing) the path is clear, warning the Tank it is unable to move if there are players nearby
In the event of an oops without a Ref nearby, Tank is advised to back away and yield to player (for safety) or the player and tank can peacefully back away from each other.
If a Ref is nearby, both will probably be called out
- ALL Players (both sides) must be 20' away from the Tank/PUG at all times (see above).
Only exception is for the players on the same side as the tank (same color), when the Tank is NOT MOBILE (turned off, parking-brake-on as applicable, etc), they may be closer. Tank MAY NOT become mobile again until players have MOVED away from Tank!
NO EXCEPTIONS FOR OPPOSING PLAYERS EVEN IF TANK IS IMMOBILE!
- 20 feet radius on buildings/structures (anything that can be demo'd/tape'd up.) This applies to ALL "vehicles" (aircraft/tank/pug)
- 50 feet radius on CP. This applies to ALL "vehicles" (aircraft/tank/pug). This is 50' around the CP, any direction.
- Vehicles (aircraft/tank/pug) MAY NOT cross UNDER the Towers, or within 20' on the sides of the Towers. (they may go through the woods if safely possible)
- Be advised the Circular Building on the Spools field IS a building, all Vehicles (aircraft/tank/pug) MUST stay 20' away from this!
- Vehicles (tank/pug) can move towards live player in bunker until 20 feet away, similarly live players may move toward the Vehicles (aircraft/tank/pug) until 20' away (if they're ballsy enough)
Does this summarize everything to everyone's likings, and SB Ref/Staff approval? My only other request would be a live demonstration at the Safety Briefing, for ALL to see, what 20' away actually is. My ONLY question is, regarding vehicles staying away from buildings, some "buildings" are near the main roads (CinderBlock City, the Barn, for example). Will the vehicles be allowed passage on these roads? The roads are the safest method of travelling. I don't want to seem nitpicky, I just want to make sure to cover this before the game and before anyone can try Catch-22 tactics on the field, AND to ensure maximum safety/fun factor. Thank you guys for taking time to make this better.
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Post by mntlhazrd on Mar 10, 2010 17:05:16 GMT -5
THat about sums it up Willow but to add there is much discussion on this subject between the staff of SB and some of it may change before the next scenario so be prepared for that. If there are any concerns about changes i am certain they will be announced in the morning briefing. So make sure my last post is clear and not to promote players trying to hide in an attempt to get a 1 for 1 with a tank that scenario is based upon face value meaning the honest intentions of either party is unknown. if fault could be placed on a specific individual then that specific individual will be pulled and the other will proceed. If both could be proven to be oblivious of each other's presence and just so happen to come within 20' of each other then they may simply be told to back away from each other. You are correct about the structures laid out through out SB and if you really think about it there is virtually no way for a tank from either side to make it to the opposing CP. THe only path free of structures that a tank might be able to navigate through is SPlatbrothers pass and i have my doubts that SH's tank could make it up that hill coming from POW. In past we have been lenient on this knowing this and have adopted that as long as the tank stays on the main road it will not be called out.
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Post by Willow on Mar 10, 2010 19:59:49 GMT -5
Totally agree William, all seems well and in good order. As long as changes are announced at the safety briefing, that's what counts, so we're all on an even keel. I can't see where anyone with safe honest intentions would pit players "in the way" to block the progress of a vehicle, unless the player in question is attempting to take out the vehicle, and is a Demo player for that role. No worries there, I don't think SoVa, Social Hazard or other teams would try that. I just do what I can to hit the tank from a distance, I prefer to NOT be gunned down. That Social Hazard tank gunner is fierce! And you're right, no tank or pug should be able to make it to within a hundred feet of a CP--unless the OpFor are literally not present, and they let a small PUG crawl up their backdoor.
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Post by wallace on Mar 10, 2010 21:37:29 GMT -5
I'm glad, we were able to clear things up and it seems willow is much more into detail then I am at times lol. thanks buddy for making the list. once it gets finalize I will post on the S.H. forum. so everyone can know. Thank you William, for your time in answering the questions we had.
Just wondering but will this be added to the SB GSRP to eliminate confusion or will it have its own place?
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Post by Ronn on Mar 10, 2010 22:34:15 GMT -5
Final word:
The rules will be covered in the pre-game briefing. Players bringing a tank or acting as a tank walker must attend. Those that do not will not be allowed to use the tank or act as a walker.
There are no official rules posted in forum threads.
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