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Post by The Corndog on Oct 21, 2009 13:16:24 GMT -5
Ronn...this is something that you least expect coming from me...but either way I look at the coin from this weekend I am impressed with how much SB is growing and evolving...minus some of the rule changes...lol The staff has come a long way from where they were a year ago and even 6months ago...cudos for that. This doesn't mean that everything is as good as it could be or that it is 100% THE BEST...but it means that the field and people are getting better. And yes I have been looking around and SB is the best field in the state by FAR and from what I hear from other people that it has other states covered as well...I am willing to go as far as saying other then size SB even has Skirmish covered. And it definitely has Skirmish covered when it comes to reffing!! A big thank you for everything that you and Donn and everyone else has been working on.
And to Will...what can I say man...even when everything is going wrong around you, you make sure to keep your head on. You definitely deserve a job well done for your efforts this weekend.
Trap...like I said before...very well written game. Haven't seen a game that intense since Big T was in town. I love playing both of y'alls games. They have sooo much more than just go here and shoot. You have to actually think about what you are doing and where you need to be. Thank You for a well developed game.
As many of you know...I don't hand out good jobs like candy. I give them when they are really deserved. I don't play the back scratching game well enough to even try...I like the truth it's easier to remember.lol But after this event these guys deserve a hand for their work.
Well played gentlemen, well played!!
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Post by Hollywood on Oct 21, 2009 14:36:52 GMT -5
Ill be the first to say thank you. myself along with R&D, Daniel and William all try to make things the best that they can be. sometimes you cant control a certain thing but we honestly try to be prepared for everything. We have come along way in the last year and we are only going to get better. Thank you for the input.
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Post by capitaloffense on Oct 21, 2009 15:05:07 GMT -5
Agreed. I find the park to be well run, well reffed and has great additions to games like incredible props like computers, giant robots, REALLY HEAVY ARKS!!! One rule I did have clarified with me this weekend, that I would like to raise as an issue for debate, is the barrel tag rule. Apparently, barrel tagging with anything OTHER than a barrel connected to a working gun, is not only not allowed, but you yourself are eliminated!! I tagged a few folks out during the night game by nicely patting them on their back and saying "barrel tag"...this to me was a gesture of sportsmanship to say - hey man, great play but i snuck up on you. But when I got called out for this I was stunned (yes I know I should have re-read the rules........) I disagree with this rule for 2 reasons - the first and more important is safety. In the age of super light electronic guns that fire 5 rounds when the wind blows, I would much rather have someone NOT put the barrel to my body point blank...I really do not think it is safe...particularly if I the tagged player accidentally moves, causing the gun to go off. The second reason is that hands touching a player basically simulates a knife kill. Some fields we play allow this and other rules that i think make a lot of sense...for instance the more military-based fields have bunker tags at windows and doors to simulate throwing a grenade in a room, which you would do in a real situation anyway...I think a simple hand touch simulating a knife kill is a much better way to go than. But other than that -- Yay SB!!!!!
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Post by mntlhazrd on Oct 21, 2009 15:59:29 GMT -5
Capital Offense, i will make my best effort to clarify the rule for you as i agree there are grays areas with it and individual referee discretion should be used. First off the barrel tag rule itself states that a completely assebled operating marker needs to be used for a valid barrel tag and tha magic words, "barrel tag" must be said. I can understand your concern for safety and currently my best resolution is to turn the safety on/ turn electronic marker off before you make the tag. Nonetheless however you tag them if they call out then they are out and it is thier fault for not knowing the rule and on the flip side if they call you on it you better be ready for their reaction. As for the no touch rule this is the part that requires referee discretion. It is to try and insure there are no misinterpetation of intents and to avoid any physical confrontation. For example you may want to walk up behind someone and to be friendly give them a hard pat on the back. Some people that may be enough for them to turn around swinging. This is in no way to discourage good sportsmanship as we do encourage hand shakes and the like.
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Post by capitaloffense on Oct 21, 2009 16:45:20 GMT -5
I think if anyone turns around swinging from a simple pat on the shoulder they need to seek anger management therapy.
I think the simple way to avoid any grey area is by making the rule very straightforward - If someone makes a good enough move to get close enough to you to touch your shoulder or back or leg (if they are laying down and you walk by them for instance) and say "barrel tag" then you are out...simple as that...
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Post by pickle on Oct 21, 2009 18:05:56 GMT -5
Well trust me, I have no real leg to stand on since I've never barrel tagged anyone, but seeing how I put on the OFU glasses and look at that rule that promotes people wandering the field blindly whispering barrel tag and forcing people out just cause they got close. Just my 2 cents on how to abuse a rule like that.
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Post by mntlhazrd on Oct 21, 2009 19:18:03 GMT -5
Lol, thats definitely a good way to try and find any loopholes in rules, just ask OFU! Many good points bought up and i always enjoy a good ruling debate as it gets me to really think about these and to hear a different view on them. Barrel tag aside for the moment your other ideas do sound good but if its one thing that has been learned in creating a scenario game and trying to lay some rules down for it is that players dont want to be eliminated from imaginary weapons. There are players out there who are willing to defend a structure to thier bitter defeat and would not want to be eliminated by what they may consider a "cheap" move. If you have your own set backs about shooying someone point blank there is always the option to ask for them to surrender and be prepared if they decide to turn on you. Now back to the barrel tag rule is that there are players who may have the same thought. On a g eneral scale players want to be eliminated with that paintball breaking on them and not simply because you touched them. You can expect very little interaction with roleplayers on this front as two roleplayers from opposite sides agree to meet on the field to make an agreement only to be elminated by a handshake. This continues into the no touching rule that is most often left to descretion as this rule not only applies to our scenarios but to our walk on days as well and extends not only to the player but to the player's personal equipment as well. As it is im sure you would not appreciate walking through a door and a player grabs the barrel of your marker to insure you dont shoot them and then barrel tag you at the same time. These are the perspectives i have thought of and would be more than willing to listen to any others you may have as many of the rules we now have written are a result of the players.
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Post by Aldva on Oct 21, 2009 19:23:31 GMT -5
I personally, have walked up behind someone, laying my hand on their shoulder touched them with my gun barrel and said barrel tag. Ive never considered this grounds for assault.
As stated in Virginia Code: Virginia Code §18.2-57 codifies the offense of simple assault and battery as a class 1 misdemeanor; however, this code section relies upon what is called the common law to define the elements of the offense. Common law is judge made law which has been around for centuries which we inherited in this country from our original ties with England. The common law definition of an assault and battery is an intentional harmful or offensive contact. To get even more specific, an assault under common law is separate from a battery. An assault is the apprehension of a harmful or offensive contact.
The code further goes in to past cases that have set precedence which have all went further to exemplify the bold area above. So to simplify.
An assault is the apprehension of a harmful or offensive contact. Per Commonwealth of Virginia code.
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Post by mntlhazrd on Oct 21, 2009 20:24:33 GMT -5
While not directly mentioned you essentially nailed one of the bases for this ruling Al. In a growing political world while one person may have no ill intentions of harm towards another the other person may interpret it as such. This is simply a ruling to avoid the possibility of a negative outcome.
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Post by DirtDart on Oct 21, 2009 21:34:41 GMT -5
Perception rules the world.
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Post by pickle on Oct 22, 2009 0:01:33 GMT -5
Perception: the other 10th of the law.
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Post by Juggernaut*BWC on Oct 22, 2009 9:39:56 GMT -5
As it is im sure you would not appreciate walking through a door and a player grabs the barrel of your marker to insure you dont shoot them and then barrel tag you at the same time. These are the perspectives i have thought of and would be more than willing to listen to any others you may have as many of the rules we now have written are a result of the players. Wouldn't that player be out by barrel-tag rules? If you touch an opposing player's barrel, the barrel is still touching. That would technically count as a barrel tag according to what I am reading - which is strictly interpretation. I'm curious because I would imagine that the rules generally prohibit a dead player from barrel-tagging someone when they've called themselves out, whether it's by pat on the back/arm/leg, stepping on the player, actually tagging them with a barrel, etc. If a live player in your situation goes to tag someone and grabs their barrel to avoid injury before he/she makes their own tag, which one is out? Would it be the aggressor for touching the barrel, the person who says "Barrel tag!" first? Or should they both call themselves out?
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Post by Gravity on Oct 22, 2009 9:58:25 GMT -5
As it is im sure you would not appreciate walking through a door and a player grabs the barrel of your marker to insure you dont shoot them and then barrel tag you at the same time. These are the perspectives i have thought of and would be more than willing to listen to any others you may have as many of the rules we now have written are a result of the players. Wouldn't that player be out by barrel-tag rules? If you touch an opposing player's barrel, the barrel is still touching. That would technically count as a barrel tag according to what I am reading - which is strictly interpretation. I'm curious because I would imagine that the rules generally prohibit a dead player from barrel-tagging someone when they've called themselves out, whether it's by pat on the back/arm/leg, stepping on the player, actually tagging them with a barrel, etc. If a live player in your situation goes to tag someone and grabs their barrel to avoid injury before he/she makes their own tag, which one is out? Would it be the aggressor for touching the barrel, the person who says "Barrel tag!" first? Or should they both call themselves out? If I were refereeing, and you were quick enough to say "barrel tag" while they were touching your barrel, then they would be dead. I was always open to interpretation as referee. Even Corn Dog was probably surprised by what I allowed as long as it was in the spirit of the game.
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Post by VooDoo on Oct 22, 2009 10:08:58 GMT -5
Once the "grabbing" player touches the gun of the advancing player in question...the "Grabber" is eliminated, period. End of discussion. Finished. Gone. Out. Dead. No words needed. No brainer.
Forget about the fact that it is strictly forbidden to touch another players personal gear while in play (in this form)....but more so that the "Grabber" has just created a dangerous situation where you now have a live marker on the field that is completely out of anyones direct control
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Post by Juggernaut*BWC on Oct 22, 2009 10:22:14 GMT -5
Once the "grabbing" player touches the gun of the advancing player in question...the "Grabber" is eliminated, period. End of discussion. Finished. Gone. Out. Dead. No words needed. No brainer. That's what I was thinking, because I was thinking that it would be similar to the tank rules (aggressor is the one that's out when the distance gets too close). But as someone else indicated, many things look to be open to interpretation.
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