dustey
High Dollar Walk On
Posts: 37
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Post by dustey on Oct 23, 2009 10:49:17 GMT -5
true he did not type a comment but he had to of thought it!!!
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Post by capitaloffense on Oct 26, 2009 17:32:47 GMT -5
so just to add a little more fuel to this fire! A. Just to set the record straight - I very cordially and very lightly tapped the two players on the shoulders - meaning I put my arms around both of them...picture taking a picture of 3 friends - i was the guy in the middle with arms around the guy on my right and left...nothing siniser and nothing violent. B. There were refs right there, and they clarified the rule with Ronn over the radio, at which time I said, "Well I disagree with this rule but if it is the rule then it is the rule, I apologize for the confusion." After which I walked off the field. The two players I tagged (IMO) should have walked off too as a gesture that - hey that was a great move considering I am standing at MY OWN CP AND JUST GOT BARREL TAGGED!! instead, they were a bit aggressive that I was in the wrong and they weren't going anywhere...whatever...everyone lived and life goes on...but I know I would have called myself out if I were in their shoes!! C. My purpose in bringing it up wasnt to say I was right - because the rules are clear that I was wrong...my purpose is to say maybe we should consider CHANGING the rules because quite frankly I think it is a stupid one that is actually less safe than the alternative. We sound like a bunch of trial lawyers arguing over what constitutes assault...but I would MUCH rather take the chance of someone "assaulting" me (something that I think the odds are 1000-1 of happening unless I am playing at Skirmish!) than having someone with a gun that can accidentally misfire and have a trigger bounce that sends 15 balls into my back at point blank range (something I think the odds are closer to 5-1)! D. Spud - regardless of this thread, I think everyone still had a great time on both sides during the night game...you really should do it!! by far the most fun time to play paintball with or without NVGs!!!
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Post by spudcrazy on Oct 26, 2009 23:27:34 GMT -5
hahaha. I have and David, don't get me started... Hand over your Gen3 night vision to us and say...three or four guys from a team like A&B or SoVa, give us just ONE practice, then take the field at night, in the woods, against us and you all can't play with ANY night vision, just lights and such and see how much fun it is. I'm gonna guess you will get tired of taking "the walk" after being barrel tagged or shot so much. I play night only when NVG isn't allowed. Sorry, I just don't see the fun in it the other way around, but that's my opinion only and again, sorry, nothing will change it. (However, if the mood strikes, I will go out at night and play cannon fodder. hehehe)
I have found (and this is my opinion only) that when playing at night when there is one or two teams equipped with night vision, that they are able to walk the field and dominate with little or minimal opposition and can mostly get their "kills" from barrel tagging non-night vision players. Yes, I have played at night and enjoy it, but that was when there was no night vision allowed. Much more challenging to all (experienced and non-experienced) and keeps the field as even as during the daytime. Besides, I will go out on a limb here [and I KNOW you will disagree] but I think more "contraversy" comes out of night play and teams like yours, fully equipped with top of the line NVG, end up taking the brunt of the accusations (right or wrong), as you find yourself defending yourself here on this forum. Night play isn't for everyone and for those few that have ventured out only to be constantly barrel tagged, it gets frustrating. I play for fun first, and once it gets frustrating, I'd rather walk off the field and enjoy the camp comaradarie.
I could go on, but you know as well as I, that we've beaten this one to death.
As a side, one of the last night games I played where there was a fairly balanced number of players with NVG, it turned out most of the non-NV players left the field before the end of the game. The two NVG teams basically took the field with all the missions leaving the non-night vision players with little left to do. I will admit, if I was a general and I needed mission points, who else would I give the missions to then the team that I know can see pretty much whatever they want (unless of course, the CP is lit up with flood lights, powered by a generator that is off field, but of course, that generator would miraculously shut down right before the CP was overrun, but I digress... oops.)
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Post by Juggernaut*BWC on Oct 27, 2009 11:43:33 GMT -5
Nobody said anything about assault (except to define what assault was) and nobody's really arguing over what constitutes assault, unless of course you're referring to the BWC goodbye post in which it was stated that one of our players was assaulted - and that's not what we were talking about. If you'd like, I can be a lot more specific since this keeps coming up.
I don't have a problem taking the walk back to the insertion point at night if I've been tagged out and I daresay most legitimate players won't have that problem either. Fair's fair, when we step on the field at night and there's a team with NVGs out there we know they're going to be running around living it up. Is it frustrating? Yeah. Big deal, it's part of the game. I'll be back in fifteen minutes when the insertion window opens.
I also don't think the rules need to be changed. If you're going to walk up to someone and grab their marker in an attempt to barrel tag them, that gesture could be interpreted as hostile. Adrenaline gets flowing in these games and people get lost in the moment. How is it LESS safe to allow it? You have no idea who you're walking up on. Keep your hands where they belong and there's less chance of an incident. Is it less safe because you might be shot at near point-blank range? Well that's the risk you take when you attempt to engage under twenty feet. The rewards are, you barrel-tag someone and they know they screwed up by letting you get too close.
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Post by Tarps on Oct 27, 2009 20:12:09 GMT -5
I also prefer not to play at night, there are enough hazards during the day. At night you just can't see them as well. On top of that add a few guys with electro guns that'll go off quite easily. Nervous newbies and such. I was asked to play the night portion of the Agony game by my general. Since he asked nicely I played. Which turned out a fun time, other than having our CP constantly being over run. After going out on a mission I was on my way back to my CP. I heard my general calling out that he was "dead man walking out". So I got into the cedar trees on the spool field. Saw a group of players heading my way who were not on my team. Waited till they walked past, stepped out of the tree. Walked up to the last guy, tapped him on the shoulder and whispered barrel tag. Next guy same thing. Now the third one says in a very loud voice "What do you mean barrel tag?!" at which point his remaining team mates turned and started shooting. Needless to say I was eliminated, as was the rest of their group.
Now I was able to do this without night vision, but the team I got into that night all had night vision on.....
Next thing will be players with thermal imagers...............
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Post by spudcrazy on Oct 27, 2009 21:46:43 GMT -5
Now the third one says in a very loud voice "What do you mean barrel tag?!" at which point his remaining team mates turned and started shooting. Next thing will be players with thermal imagers............... Yep, very similar thing happened to myself and Sabot Ranger one of the last times we played at night at SB. Seemed to be the teams MO was to warn the rest of their players. Of course a lot of times barrel tagging is the only definitive way to eliminate someone at night. But great play nevertheless... And "hahahaha ;D ;D", Coastie brought thermals at one of the games.
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Post by Juggernaut*BWC on Oct 28, 2009 2:58:39 GMT -5
And "hahahaha ;D ;D", Coastie brought thermals at one of the games. Who can really afford that stuff?
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Post by VooDoo on Oct 28, 2009 3:14:34 GMT -5
Coastie is from the Internet. He has connections
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Post by capitaloffense on Oct 28, 2009 14:27:41 GMT -5
Well, since I get the eerie suspicion that Spud's comment was aimed at my guys, i will say that we have no such MO. Since we are one of the few teams fully outfitted with NVGs, we usually get the brunt of complaints after a night game, which is expected...so... switching gears from the barrel tag theme for a second let me just say this: 1. We almost always have random players scattered among us because that's what our generals always want...for us to GUIDE players who can't see...so always blaming us for things like that isnt really fair. (but if someone really did yell "What do you mean barrel tag!" then that was a BS play and he should be called out on it...particularly if it is one of my guys so i can smack him in the head - no excuses for that). 2. Half my team chooses never to wear their NVGs because they play better at night without them. In fact, my wife has spotted more players and props during night games with NO night vision than I have with Gen IIIs. Except for VERY limited cases, there are never more than a few NVG units on the field for us. We happen to play quite well without them. So usually teams blow it a little out of proportion what they are up against. 3. We have been on the other side of the equation plenty of times where we had no NVG and the other side had entire teams with them...does it make it harder...YES. Does it make them invincible? NO. In fact, just this past game I was barrel tagged in the trenches because a guy was sitting completely motionless and I simply could not make him out in the bushes...he saw me though!! so saying you can't compete at night because some players have NVGs is just kind of lame. Plus there are several very easy ways to defeat night vision regardless of what Gen it is...and even if you dont try to defeat it, it usually defeats itself cause everything is too fogged up to see after a while!!! LOL 4. What NVGs do bring to the game is they demonstrate the ENORMOUS number of players that CHEAT CONSTANTLY during night play...I cannot tell you how many times we hit people and they dont call themselves out thinking that no one can see they were shot. And then when you call them on it or shoot them again, they either get mad or say "it bounced" - which there is no excuse for because EVERYONE KNOWS all hits count at night. Almost everyone we shot on the way to the Towers field at that game failed to call themselves out - except for a group of guys back by Maze who were very honorable players and a great group of guys (unfortunately i have no idea who they were because everyone looks the same wtih NVGs on!! LOL) OK. I think i'll get off this soapbox now...bad day at the office is leaving me little patience for just about everything! I actually hate getting involved in all this forum back and forth and generally never get involved in it. I play paintball to have a good time and avoid politics....working in Washington gives me all the fill of politics i need! All i was suggesting way back in the thread was maybe we should just CONSIDER looking at a rule that I think presents more problems than it solves!!
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Post by mntlhazrd on Oct 28, 2009 14:54:35 GMT -5
Capital Offense, your concern for the barrel tag rule is the situation we all face when we play paintball. At any given point we are liable to take a shot from an intimate distance especially in cqb situations. While reviewing the GSRP the thing is though while we are focused on one rule here we neglected to see the bigger picture. During day play barrel tags are not as common but to prevent accidents we only allow specific modes of fire such as ramping, semi and RT. To focus more on ramping you have to fire 3 single shots before it ramps and in any given situation for an accident the probabilities for the marker to start ramping are slim. During night play when barrel tags are more prominent FPS is turned down from 285 to 250. In reality the average FPS will be around 235-245 as people take in account for spikes in velocity and it will be even lower for people with electros who are trying to compensate for hot shots. In addition to that the modes of fire during night play are further restricted to semi only. With all that in consideration the chances of taking more than three shots point blank and to have any serious effect that requires medical beyond basic first aid are once again slim.
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Post by capitaloffense on Oct 28, 2009 15:43:36 GMT -5
Yea, I get all that, and I am probably just making more of an issue than it needs to be. I understand the chances are very slim. It's never happened to me and probably never will. Plus if it does happen it will suck, but we all take point blank shots now and again...it's part of the game...I have been playing for 20 years and have seen it all. I'm just saying there is an option for a safER alternative that i figured i'd offer up. no worries as i will never make the mistake again of not tagging someone wtih my actual barrel!!! But just know that if i ever do end up with shots in the back pt blank cause someone's gun misfired I'm coming after you guys!!!! LOL (just kidding)
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Post by Juggernaut*BWC on Oct 29, 2009 11:00:26 GMT -5
so saying you can't compete at night because some players have NVGs is just kind of lame. Plus there are several very easy ways to defeat night vision regardless of what Gen it is...and even if you dont try to defeat it, it usually defeats itself cause everything is too fogged up to see after a while!!! LOL This past game, we ran ambushes on teams during the night battle. We caught an NVG-using team out in the open ( amazingly, none of them died in spite of it being practically point-blank range) and later encountered the same team on the tower field. I and many of my guys like the night game because it's a truer test of our abilities. My guys know how to deal with NVG players - the last two fall scenarios we've either completely shut down NVG users with bright lights and pistols police-style, or we've given them a run for their money just by laying in wait. I wish we could encourage more people to do the same, instead of flailing about in the dark in the speed ravine. My team has two night-vision optics, neither are head-mounted. We rarely use them because it's more fun turning the lights on. We're looking into getting some old PVS-7s from the DRMO on nearby installations because none of us feels like spending triple-digit dollars on something that's more of a niche than anything else, when we feel justifiably confident in being able to aggress teams during the night with our eyeballs and spotlights.
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Post by capitaloffense on Oct 30, 2009 10:23:47 GMT -5
i would recommend the 14s over the 7s - we tried both and the NVG over both eyes we found to cause more tripping and falling...if you are lying static, 7s are much better...such as base defense roles, but if you want to shoot and scoot, i think the 14s are much better (and safer!) IMO.
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Post by Juggernaut*BWC on Oct 30, 2009 12:33:55 GMT -5
I spent ten years in the Army, almost all of it tactical. I'm aware of the limitations of PVS7s, having spent much of my fieldtime lugging a pair around and strapping those monstrosities to my face. Sad panda... makes my face and neck hurt thinking about it.
The reason why we're looking at PVS-7s is because they are old and therefore either cheap or free. Most of us are active duty or prior service and thus have access to DRMO which sells used gear on the really-cheap. PVS14s are not in the average player's budget. We're casual woodsballers with a few hardcore junkies mixed in, therefore I doubt an NVG company would sponsor us and donate toward that type of thing (though if we got serious I'm sure we could probably make a good case for it). None of us have the type of financial liberty that allows access to that type of gear.
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