The airplane thing.

[comfymumfy]

Thanks Joker! ;D

[Slacker]

The purpose of this post was not to argue about what happened on Saturday but to clarify to others what the rule actually is. Kouza if you had read what i posted, especially the bolded areas, you would see i do not want the rules changed, since i feel that the way they are written makes the most sense and is safer than creating a full 20' barrier like a tank has. I agree that while it would be great to have a ref follow a plane, it would also be great to have a ref go out on every mission, or even to have one follow me around to watch all 5 of my shots each insertion. However I doubt splatbrothers has that many refs. The real solution is when players actually know the rules so there is no need to argue.

[Gravity]

Oct 19, 2010 22:14:36 GMT -5 Slacker said:

The purpose of this post was not to argue about what happened on Saturday but to clarify to others what the rule actually is. Kouza if you had read what i posted, especially the bolded areas, you would see i do not want the rules changed, since i feel that the way they are written makes the most sense and is safer than creating a full 20' barrier like a tank has. I agree that while it would be great to have a ref follow a plane, it would also be great to have a ref go out on every mission, or even to have one follow me around to watch all 5 of my shots each insertion. However I doubt splatbrothers has that many refs. The real solution is when players actually know the rules so there is no need to argue.

Slacker. Dude. Two thumbs up.

[comfymumfy]

Oct 19, 2010 22:14:36 GMT -5 Slacker said:

it would also be great to have a ref go out on every mission, or even to have one follow me around to watch all 5 of my shots each insertion.

I lol'd. ;D

And I agree that it would be nice that everyone know all the rules, but I can rarely remember where I put my car keys day to day, that's why I have a wife to remind me where I put them.

[Farva]

Oct 19, 2010 21:34:47 GMT -5 comfymumfy said:

Everyone playing should obviously be concerned with safety. We all play a game that is under scrutiny by people that would love to see it banned, and insurance companies that make demands so they don't have to spend their money.

The easy answer is to have a ref shadowing airplanes/helicopters to enforce the rules and deal with any controversy. Assuming the planes/helicopters may be on a mission a ref should definitely be with it anyway.

Players should not have to get into screaming matches when they're trying to enjoy their weekend of 280fps bliss. The refs at this game seem to be getting a lot of praise that they deserve and earned, it should have been their place to settle this argument not the people with the RED or BLUE ABT.

Personally, I'd prefer not to be shot by a nerf from 6, 21, or even 50 feet. My team takes this particular incident to heart because we've seen the damage a nerf can do to a persons face from a close distance (about 20').

So that's our opinion, that's all we're trying to convey.

I couldn't have said it better. If you're the British guy I shouted at...please know that it wasn't personal. I had to shout to be heard over the ruckus (man I've always wanted to use that word in a sentence).

As far as what Corndog said...although I don't share his exact sentiments, I do think you could have shot safely. Caught in a similar situation at the Alamo game, I aimed at the player's feet. The shot bounced harmlessly off the pilot's boots, and the plane was out. I try to aim all close range shots on a plane at the feet of a player if I don't have a high chance of hitting the wooden plane itself.

Either way, I know you aren't trying to argue a call that's already been made, Slacker. You were actually really stand up about the whole thing, and I will always remember the fact that while we had our hands up and were getting lit up anyway, you were one of two dudes with red on actually yelling for a cease fire. That meant a lot, LOL, trust me.

All in all, your heart was pure on this one, Joel. There's a reason you got nominated individually as the MFO, and that's one of them.

[Willow]

As has been stated, the rules are clear, and as Slacker said, there's no need to argue when players abide by them. I shot down a plane that was about 25' away from me on Sunday. I've offered planes the chance to surrender--for whatever reason, I've never had one actually give up, they usually end up running.

I never understood that. You have a Demo, presumably less than 50' from you who will most likely hit you accurately, but you're going to choose to try and instantly coordinate 10 legs running in the same direction--trying to outmaneuver an object flying at 100+ mph? Makes no sense to me haha.

Here's how it usually works for me when I'm "that close". I'll aim at their lower body (trying to go for legs), and demand a surrender. When they don't, I just shoot. The plane I shot down 25' away from me on Sunday, I hit the guy below his knee. No damage, I even approached him and made sure he was ok and knew I wasn't trying to hurt him--he was all smiles and was fine with it and appreciated me aiming low.

The nice thing about those heavy planes is it gives the Demo player a non-human-object to hit at close range, or at a distance (though, easier at a close range). Before when it was just a rope, you HAD to hit a human target. I can't speak for all, but most Demo people I know will go out of their way to ensure a rocket won't hit above the chest--a hard target being preferred.

Slacker did the right thing to point out the rules. With the 20' barrier in place you have some options. For a tank, the aggressor--either the tank or a person making the advance--can be called out for safety reasons. A tank can do some damage. A plane is different, it won't cause damage, but the barrier is in place for the safety of the people on the plane--so a Demo won't pummel someone from 8'away.

A demo is also not to advance within this 20' barrier. How do you LAW-tag a plane then? The answer is in the rules: ambush. If you're behind an object or in a bush which a plane is walking by, and you remain motionless (showing that you are not being an aggressor), and you're able to touch any portion of the plane with your LAW--the plane is considered "barrel-tagged" and thus has been eliminated. Demo cannot advance within the barrier to do so.

It's foolish for a plane to be "that close" (which to me, is less than 50') and think they can run away. I can understand them being willing to go down fighting, thus not giving in when Demo has them within sights, but all a Demo has to do is put the rocket below the chest, and all will be well.

A ref per plane would be super, but not practical. Here's an idea, and this is up to everyone to make sure this works: You could designate an individual player as a "plane walker" just like a tank walker. All they have to do is put on a tank-walker apparel real quick, carry no marker or anything else, and simply be the ones to make the call. This doesn't require a ref, can be instituted really quickly, and would solve a lot of hassles. As long as planes don't "require" it that'd be great.

This way, instead of relying on the Pilot to make those calls (which is what he's supposed to do btw), this allows a "neutral" party to do so.

Hope this helps.

[Slacker]

I'm sorry is everyone just glancing over where i posted the gsrp?

Oct 19, 2010 12:17:14 GMT -5 Slacker said:

From the splatbrothers gsrp:

Aircraft are not to land closer than 20 feet to any other live player.
Players may not follow within 20 feet of an aircraft.

According to the gsrp a player with a law can run right up to a plane and barrel tag it. end of story.




oh and willow on a side note i was on that plane sunday, and we actually had a plan to dodge your shots (which worked twice) but we got slowed down in the trench when a ref saw a bounced nerfy hit the plane.... meh

[Willow]

Slacker, yeah I was shootin' poorly. The trench idea was unique but was the plane's downfall, it was easy to just walk up and plunk at close range--which is what finally happened.

Also, how can a Demo barrel tag if they're not allowed within the 20' barrier? This has been covered before, Ron has even stated they cannot break the 20' barrier. The tag has to be like a normal tag, the LAW has to physically touch a part of the plane--hard to do from 20', unless the Demo remains motionless and the plane advances within arm's reach.

I'm not following?

[Slacker]

Because the idea of a 20' barrier around the plane IS the mistake. the gsrp only says that a plane cannot LAND within 20' of player and that a player cannot FOLLOW within 20' of a plane.

so for example i see your plane running towards an objective, i cant run up and STAY next to you to prevent you from landing.

The first part was to prevent a plane from landing on someone (five guys bouncing from player to player land/barrel tag/take off) and the second part was to prevent the players from preventing a plane landing (ill stand here for thirty minutes so you have to crash and die)

Thats all. Some where along the line someone saw "20 feet" mentioned and just assumed it meant planes were like tanks. The only reason there is a BARRIER around a tank is because of the possibility of someone getting run over.

[Gravity]

fol·low (fl)
v. fol·lowed, fol·low·ing, fol·lows
v.tr.
1. To come or go after; proceed behind: Follow the usher to your seat.
2.
a. To go after in or as if in pursuit: "The wrong she had done followed her and haunted her dream" (Katherine Anne Porter).
b. To keep under surveillance: followed the suspect around town.
3.
a. To move along the course of; take: We followed a path to the shore.
b. To go in the direction of; be guided by: followed the sun westward across the plains; followed the signs to the zoo.
4. To accept the guidance, command, or leadership of: follow a spiritual master; rebels who refused to follow their commander.
5. To adhere to; practice: followed family traditions.
6. To take as a model or precedent; imitate: followed my example and resigned.
7.
a. To act in agreement or compliance with; obey: follow the rules; follow one's instincts.
b. To keep to or stick to: followed the recipe; follow a diet.
8. To engage in (a trade or occupation); work at.
9. To come after in order, time, or position: Night follows day.
10. To bring something about at a later time than or as a consequence of: She followed her lecture with a question-and-answer period. The band followed its hit record with a tour.
11. To occur or be evident as a consequence of: Your conclusion does not follow your premise.
12.
a. To watch or observe closely: followed the bird through binoculars.
b. To be attentive to; pay close heed to: too sleepy to follow the sermon.
c. To keep oneself informed of the course, progress, or fortunes of: follow the stock market; followed the local teams.
13. To grasp the meaning or logic of; understand: Do you follow my argument?
v.intr.
1. To come, move, or take place after another person or thing in order or time.
2. To occur or be evident as a consequence; result: If you ignore your diet, trouble will follow.
3. To grasp the meaning or reasoning of something; understand.
n.
1. The act or an instance of following.
2. Games A billiards shot in which the cue ball is struck above center so that it follows the path of the object ball after impact.

[Oblivious]

Nice, Gravity

[Willow]

My memory on the new video may be mistaken, but I think it specified the 20 foot barrier around the plane. We have to remember that SB's doesn't purely use the official GSRP, they use their own modified version.

SB Rulings/Modifications > the GSRP. If their video does specify this boundary, then it will supercede their website rules (which would need updating, or have the video revised).

Not trying to argue a point, I honestly can't remember what the video said, and I heard refs talking about 20' boundaries around the planes this past weekend.. I'm just wanting to hear the official word on this plane-barrier thing.

[Ronn]

To quote Willow:

"If you're behind an object or in a bush which a plane is walking by, and you remain motionless (showing that you are not being an aggressor), and you're able to touch any portion of the plane with your LAW--the plane is considered "barrel-tagged" and thus has been eliminated. Demo cannot advance to do so."

This was stated on Sunday as well.

[Slacker]

Ronn, if you are changing the GSRP again then that is fine and you are well within your right to do so. I remember our talk, I was just hoping for safety's sake that it was a one time deal.

Oct 19, 2010 19:10:51 GMT -5 The Corndog said:

therefore... if... you can not just reach out to barrel tag them from where ever you are just pull the trigger from 6 feet away. Once you shoot them that close and one of them cries...you know as well as the ref that the plane did get hit and that you were [not] the one that [broke] the 20ft rule.

Don't let this happen again Slacker...just pull the trigger and blast the sorry chap from 10 feet away.

I've learned my lesson and am now completely clear on the rules. [/thread]

[kouza]

WOW